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AmyLoos RR Addict (1606) |
ColaAppleMuncher wrote:
I like natural horsemanship and stuff, but I hate how on these websites it says how bits are so cruel. (gasp!) and even so going bitless and stuff, the mechanical hackamore can be even more cruel than the bit to the point of breaking the horses nose if used roughly! |
We don't include hackamores in our "philosophy."
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| Reg 2/12/2008 | | Posted 9:48pm, Tuesday 30th November | |
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AmyLoos RR Addict (1606) |
Mara48 wrote:
Taihoa wrote:
there is a photo of a horses leg on that site with a bandage on, and blood coming out underneath it as if its the worst thing on earth - thats what i was talking about.
i personally congratulate all riders, and know most people do as well. i know one person who doesn't cos she is very shy - so thats fair enough.
i'm just sick of these natural horsemanship websites saying how evil we are - perhaps we should start a website showing how awful natural horsemanship can be?? |
LIKE!! |
Hahahha do it! I would love to see it 
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| Reg 2/12/2008 | | Posted 9:48pm, Tuesday 30th November | |
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ColaAppleMuncher RR Citizen (876) | I like natural horsemanship and stuff, but I hate how on these websites it says how bits are so cruel. (gasp!) and even so going bitless and stuff, the mechanical hackamore can be even more cruel than the bit to the point of breaking the horses nose if used roughly!
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| Reg 1/7/2010 | | Posted 7:51pm, Tuesday 5th October | |
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Taihoa wrote:
there is a photo of a horses leg on that site with a bandage on, and blood coming out underneath it as if its the worst thing on earth - thats what i was talking about.
i personally congratulate all riders, and know most people do as well. i know one person who doesn't cos she is very shy - so thats fair enough.
i'm just sick of these natural horsemanship websites saying how evil we are - perhaps we should start a website showing how awful natural horsemanship can be?? |
LIKE!!
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| | | | Posted 4:55pm, Wednesday 22nd September | |
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crystal=] RR Vice President (26340) |
S A R A H H : wrote:
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crystal= wrote:
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S A R A H H : wrote:
]I think you'll find wild horses and domesticated horses are actually quite different...
In the wild, natural selection occurs and kills of 'weaker' more vulnerable horses leaving ONLY the strong ones that can survive in the sort of conditions needed for their habitat. A fine example is my horse, he would have been killed off long ago if he lived in the wild, in fact he probably would NEVER have existed. His feet turn to powder if the appropriate care is not maintained. If he loses a shoe he cant do anything, he can barely move. And no, it wasnt shoes that caused this. I have traced back to his breeders and he has been this way from day 1.
Humans have invented/come across ways to 'fix' or 'better' the traits that would cease a horses existence in the wild. |
actually, horses can go for ages without showing any signs of weakness or pain, because 'in the wild' if they show any signs of weakness they will be the first to be killed cos they are easy prey. |
I didnt say that they couldnt?  |
wow sorry i totally didn't even read your post properly - sorry! 
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| Reg 14/12/2007 | | Posted 8:08am, Tuesday 21st September | |
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Lollie RR Vice President (26088) | Lil_tiga, it seems you've done a lot of research into how horses are naturally designed to live and cope, how they communicate etc in the wild, etc etc etc, and I appreciate that - I'm constantly researching the same things to improve my horses quality of life as well.
BUT, you do have to remember that half the members on here have either TBs or WBs, both of which are bred for their ability on the track and under saddle, NOT to replicate a wild horse. Half of them are bred with shitty feet that DO need shoes to cope with their work load, or very fine coats that DO require rugs to prevent them from getting too cold or being burnt in summer (for EG my grey WB mare has pink patches of skin that would get fiercly sunburnt if I left her unrugged). So to a degree, wild horses and purpose bred "domesticated" horses are actually extremely different these days.
Hope that makes sense, I got like 3-4 hours sleep last night/this morning.
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| Reg 5/1/2008 | | Posted 10:04pm, Monday 20th September | |
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S A R A H H :] RR Governer (9398) |
crystal= wrote:
]
S A R A H H : wrote:
]I think you'll find wild horses and domesticated horses are actually quite different...
In the wild, natural selection occurs and kills of 'weaker' more vulnerable horses leaving ONLY the strong ones that can survive in the sort of conditions needed for their habitat. A fine example is my horse, he would have been killed off long ago if he lived in the wild, in fact he probably would NEVER have existed. His feet turn to powder if the appropriate care is not maintained. If he loses a shoe he cant do anything, he can barely move. And no, it wasnt shoes that caused this. I have traced back to his breeders and he has been this way from day 1.
Humans have invented/come across ways to 'fix' or 'better' the traits that would cease a horses existence in the wild. |
actually, horses can go for ages without showing any signs of weakness or pain, because 'in the wild' if they show any signs of weakness they will be the first to be killed cos they are easy prey. |
I didnt say that they couldnt?
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| Reg 30/5/2009 | | Posted 9:43pm, Monday 20th September | |
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crystal=] RR Vice President (26340) |
S A R A H H : wrote:
]I think you'll find wild horses and domesticated horses are actually quite different...
In the wild, natural selection occurs and kills of 'weaker' more vulnerable horses leaving ONLY the strong ones that can survive in the sort of conditions needed for their habitat. A fine example is my horse, he would have been killed off long ago if he lived in the wild, in fact he probably would NEVER have existed. His feet turn to powder if the appropriate care is not maintained. If he loses a shoe he cant do anything, he can barely move. And no, it wasnt shoes that caused this. I have traced back to his breeders and he has been this way from day 1.
Humans have invented/come across ways to 'fix' or 'better' the traits that would cease a horses existence in the wild. |
actually, horses can go for ages without showing any signs of weakness or pain, because 'in the wild' if they show any signs of weakness they will be the first to be killed cos they are easy prey.
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| Reg 14/12/2007 | | Posted 9:40pm, Monday 20th September | |
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Jenn RR Vice President (11624) | Have you ever met or delt with a wild horse?
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| Reg 25/3/2007 | | Posted 9:29pm, Monday 20th September | |
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S A R A H H :] RR Governer (9398) | I think you'll find wild horses and domesticated horses are actually quite different...
In the wild, natural selection occurs and kills of 'weaker' more vulnerable horses leaving ONLY the strong ones that can survive in the sort of conditions needed for their habitat. A fine example is my horse, he would have been killed off long ago if he lived in the wild, in fact he probably would NEVER have existed. His feet turn to powder if the appropriate care is not maintained. If he loses a shoe he cant do anything, he can barely move. And no, it wasnt shoes that caused this. I have traced back to his breeders and he has been this way from day 1.
Humans have invented/come across ways to 'fix' or 'better' the traits that would cease a horses existence in the wild.
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| Reg 30/5/2009 | | Posted 7:57pm, Monday 20th September | |
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lil_tiga Executive Jockey (475) | let me remind everyone HORSES WILD OR NOT ARE HORSES, just like dogs are dogs, cats are cats.... no matter how much you "train" "dominate" "Domesticate" whatever your technique they are always still what they are just taught to behaive a set way...
Horses STILL act like horses, no matter if they are trained or not... They still should eat the same, act the same, you cant change their natural behavious only add to them in sertin situations etc
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| Reg 12/2/2006 | | Posted 7:27pm, Monday 20th September | |
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lil_tiga Executive Jockey (475) | Jenn
"But wild horses arent ridden/competed.
It really gets up my nose when people go on with "in the wild horses didn't have rugs etc etc"
Wild horses and tame horses are two totally different animals, its barely worth comparing them."
???? they are the same they are the same animal they are not compeletly different i understand needing a rug if you want a clean horse for a comp i do it, but they are hardly differnt, that was a very ODD point to make lol...
yes they live approx 10yrs in wild but they dont get vet care or dentistly etc...
the general idea of natural horsemanship or holistic approaches is to mimic thier natural enviroment and biology ... they are not saying just leave your horse completly "allnatural" and dont tend to them etc... the stuff such as dentistry, hoof trimming and neccessary vet care and simlple feeding is required, it becomes an issue when we change their biololoy not MAINTAIN what or how they naturally are....its good for the horse mentally and physically to have the freedom to express and preform their natural behavours ... if you want to argue this point take it up with my university lectures and the number of websites, dont tell me that the company that makes the cover says bla bla bla because they just say -: Brownie :- to make you buy their poducts haha
Horses for warmth MOVE, horses needing cooling wallow in water or hide under tress, same if they need protection from the elements trees ARE their covers, there feet are taken care (if in a normal natural enviroment) by their movement over verying surfaces finding food and water, grooming is done by thier pairs, rolling, scraching on tree, their teeth are taken care by the food that the hunt for, and they believe it or not FIND different herbs for health by themselves if given a chance....
I AM NOT SAYING YOU DONT DO ANYTHING TO CARE FOR THEM... ITS JUST NOT NECCASSARYT TO CHANGE EVERYTHING, JUST MAINTAIN IT WITHOUT THE NEED FOR ADDING THINGS
=)
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| Reg 12/2/2006 | | Posted 7:20pm, Monday 20th September | |
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crystal=] RR Vice President (26340) |
MissAshleigh wrote:
crystal= wrote:
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S A R A H H : wrote:
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just something I was told by the horse dentist the other day, is she TB? And was she raced? Coz at the back of the tongue horses have some weird bone type thing thats apparently like a wish bone and sometimes it gets broken, and its more common in race horses. Like if the tongue gets pulled it can break it and so when the horse relaxes their tongue lolls out of their mouth. |
the hyoid apparatus - if it breaks there will be SERIOUS problems, not just a tongue hanging out of the mouth every so often.
(i know as i have disected one with a vet and studied this extensively) |
She is a TB and she was raced but she was also tounge tied (stocking is used to tie the tounge down to the bottom jaw) hence the reason she hangs her tounge out when she doesn't want to do something. She is completely up to date teeth/chiro/massage etc and she does it when shes in a mood and not getting her own way  |
yeah i highly doubt her hyoid apparatus is broken lol
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| Reg 14/12/2007 | | Posted 9:59am, Friday 17th September | |
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MissAshleigh RR Addict (1434) | I think a lot of it as well is watching young children yanking on their ponies mouths and whipping the living daylights out of their ponies if they do not go over a jump (which generally is the riders fault) is where the whole 'bits are cruel etc etc' can come in. And that if you ride traditionally its wrong etc. I know its heartbreaking watching some of those ponies enduring that and especially when the mothers are yelling to 'pull its bloody head in and get it over that jump etc' its crazy. Another incident was a young girl riding at a ribbon day. Had a showjumper pony she must have been 16 and he went flat stick everywhere, he refused a jump and she flew over still holding the reins and got up and started YANKING on the poor horses mouth that was in a PELHAM and this wasn't little yanking. It wasn't just me who started yelling at the girl but its things like that that can make riders upset from both forms. At the end of the day we all ride for pleasure and enjoyment and its there we all need to support and encourage each other, not give horse riders the 'bitchy' image  This was completely OT haha
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| Reg 16/3/2010 | | Posted 8:23am, Friday 17th September | |
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MissAshleigh RR Addict (1434) |
crystal= wrote:
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S A R A H H : wrote:
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MissAshleigh wrote:
I don't strap her mouth shut even though I have been advised to do so as she likes to 'loll' her tongue out when avoiding work |
just something I was told by the horse dentist the other day, is she TB? And was she raced? Coz at the back of the tongue horses have some weird bone type thing thats apparently like a wish bone and sometimes it gets broken, and its more common in race horses. Like if the tongue gets pulled it can break it and so when the horse relaxes their tongue lolls out of their mouth. |
the hyoid apparatus - if it breaks there will be SERIOUS problems, not just a tongue hanging out of the mouth every so often.
(i know as i have disected one with a vet and studied this extensively) |
She is a TB and she was raced but she was also tounge tied (stocking is used to tie the tounge down to the bottom jaw) hence the reason she hangs her tounge out when she doesn't want to do something. She is completely up to date teeth/chiro/massage etc and she does it when shes in a mood and not getting her own way
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| Reg 16/3/2010 | | Posted 8:13am, Friday 17th September | |
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S A R A H H :] RR Governer (9398) |
Jenn wrote:
But wild horses arent ridden/competed.
It really gets up my nose when people go on with "in the wild horses didn't have rugs etc etc"
Wild horses and tame horses are two totally different animals, its barely worth comparing them. |
exactly. And whats the average life-span of a wild horse? Isnt it like 11 or soemthing? (Im probabaly totally wrong, but for some reason thats what number comes to mind )
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| Reg 30/5/2009 | | Posted 6:45pm, Thursday 16th September | |
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Jenn RR Vice President (11624) | But wild horses arent ridden/competed.
It really gets up my nose when people go on with "in the wild horses didn't have rugs etc etc"
Wild horses and tame horses are two totally different animals, its barely worth comparing them.
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| Reg 25/3/2007 | | Posted 5:37pm, Thursday 16th September | |
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crystal=] RR Vice President (26340) |
lil_tiga wrote:
Crystal*: Yes! =) this is what i mean about needing to look at the intire package, that is why they (paradise paddock and a number of other people) said horses back in the day (e.g. think of americas land, some like NZ some complete dirt etc) were gathers the ROAMED a large amount just to find food (food back then was mainly brown or "normal grass" stuff not man-made improved fertilisedand grass we have created today, unless they are lucky to come accross it) and water so the terain the crossed vaired meaning they would self trim to a point anyway... Dont get me wrong I do believe that horses have had a better life since we have learnt how to trim them to maintain the shape etc... |
yup totally know what you mean - the 'wild' horses here in NZ have it far too easy lol
everything right there readily available to them so they just get fatter and fatter and because they aren't roaming as much as wild horses overseas they develop hoof problems including laminitis.
with my own personal experience, i have found shoes to be more of a hinder than a help
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| Reg 14/12/2007 | | Posted 11:10am, Thursday 16th September | |
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lil_tiga Executive Jockey (475) | Chrystal: Yes! =) this is what i mean about needing to look at the intire package, that is why they (paradise paddock and a number of other people) said horses back in the day (e.g. think of americas land, some like NZ some complete dirt etc) were gathers the ROAMED a large amount just to find food (food back then was mainly brown or "normal grass" stuff not man-made improved fertilisedand grass we have created today, unless they are lucky to come accross it) and water so the terain the crossed vaired meaning they would self trim to a point anyway... Dont get me wrong I do believe that horses have had a better life since we have learnt how to trim them to maintain the shape etc...
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| Reg 12/2/2006 | | Posted 10:53am, Thursday 16th September | |
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crystal=] RR Vice President (26340) |
S A R A H H : wrote:
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lil_tiga wrote:
AND my last thought is just because its the NORM eg shoeing, bits, spurs , covers etc dosnt mean its right...
if you can do it without these things the better you dont need all the contraptions they are jsut to make YOUR life easier...
=) |
There was actually a really interesting article in the H&P about the Kaimanawas and how a majority of them (in the 'wild') have laminitis and other such hoof problems...
Im not against anyone doing natural horsemanship, and I dont think anyone on here is, its just when people say 'bits are sooo cruel' and stuff like that, its going to ruffle a few feathers because majority of people on here do use bits and other 'un-natural' things. |
they said it was because the kaimanawa's never had to travel for anything - grass, water, shelter etc was all right there for them
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| Reg 14/12/2007 | | Posted 8:48am, Thursday 16th September | |
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